I'm posting after a long time today. It's not that I've run out of stuff to write about, in fact, last three months have been so high paced that I have loads to write but the schedule here does not permit enough time to write the posts of length which I generally write.
So my life's happenings in the last three months can wait for now. What I'm going to write about is what happened last night or today morning if you may prefer.
17th August, 2008, approx 3 AM and I'm doing some regular net surfing. I see an old college mate named Nilesh, online on gtalk and he has his status message as, "Why are we here?". Well, I saw this as an opportunity to have some 'deep conversations'. We chatted for about 2 hours. Reflecting back on the conversation, I found it way too interesting, so I decided to give it a spot on my blog.
Here you go...
3:13 AM me: that depends on where you are....
Nilesh: did you complete your first assignment
3:14 AM me: i have lost count of the number of assignments i've completed and the ones remaining
;)
Nilesh: that means you know what are you doing there !
3:15 AM me: i would like to believe so
Nilesh: but do you know why are you here ?
3:16 AM me: again... that would depend on what you consider as here....
3:17 AM Nilesh: I am trying to understand what am I doing here on EARTH ?
what is my purpose ?
me: now that's what i call clarifying the question
3:18 AM Nilesh: well do the honours and clarify the doubt i have in my mind
3:19 AM me: me and my good friend manas (i guess you remember him) have had this discussion a couple of times
Nilesh: yes i remember him
so any luck ?
3:20 AM me: and our conclusion has been that whatever we do is, at the root level, basically the DNA trying to replicate itself to keep the species progressing
so it's survival of the fittest all the way
3:21 AM Nilesh: So I am here to SURVIVE ?
It is my purpose.
I need to survive.
3:22 AM So we are here to survive.
ok.
me: no, my friend...
our purpose is to be the next step in the ladder of evolution
to outdo our best
3:23 AM in order to make the species better as a whole every day
btw where did this question suddenly arise from?
Nilesh: And we do that by making all other species
EXTINCT
3:24 AM so finally the only species will be us.
me: my personal observation is that people generally ponder over this question when something bad happens to them
what happened with you?
Nilesh: Nothing has happened.
3:25 AM I was wondering
what's the use doing things
me: if you were wondering without any particular incident trigerring this process then you are a philosopher my friend
Nilesh: actually
3:26 AM I saw my parents tell me to
do good in 10th standard
ot get a good college
then do good in 12
me: and i know where it goes from there
Nilesh: ya
me: get into a good engg college
get a good job
Nilesh: So how long will this go
me: prepare for cat
get into a good mba institute
3:27 AM and the cycle keeps on going on
Nilesh: earn good money
so that you will buy things
that gives happiness.
But this is not the only way to gain happiness.
3:28 AM me: that, is where you get it wrong
Nilesh: Oh !
me: have you heard of a concept called alpha male?
Nilesh: no
proceed
3:29 AM me: this is again linked to the survival of the fittest
Nilesh: ya big fish eat small fish
3:30 AM but not in civilized society
me: no, not the big fish small fish thing.... let me complete please
Nilesh: ok
proceed
3:31 AM me: in the animal kingdom, that includes human beings, the female is always looking for security for her offspring. so she always mates with the male who is able to provide the most secure environment to the offspring.
such a male is called the alpha male
and is a highly desirable mate for the females of the herd
3:32 AM now, in the uncivilised world, security was offered by physical strength
so the alpha male was the most physically powerful male
lets extrapolate this concept to the present world and the so called civilised society
3:33 AM today, security is defined by your status and the amount of money you make.
3:34 AM so when you are trying to get yourself the best education and the best jobs, you are not trying to be happy
its your underlying DNA trying to find you a mate so that it can replicate
i hope i've made myself clear
Nilesh: Yes I got the concept.
3:35 AM I did'nt know abt alpha male concept
3:36 AM Its happening from earlier times that male from every species always fight to mate to pass on their genes to the next generation.
And that is why males produce millions of sperms
3:37 AM even though only one is needed for conception.
But if you think it this way.
Earth has undergone a lot of changes in the past.
The ice ages repeat every 10,000 or some years.
3:38 AM I think its 10 million years
wherein every species is completely wiped out.
me: no... not completely wiped out... the weaker ones are
Nilesh: ya.
3:39 AM and then we start the process of development and civilization once again
reinvent the wheel everytime we survive an ice age
3:40 AM and ice age is not the only one agent to wipe out the civlization
me: i dont have sufficient data on the ice ages and the development of civilisation but i think you got the information wrong
Nilesh: I am not even blaming industrial revolution
to cause the pollution and destroy the earth.
me: ice ages do not wipe out civilisation but put a pause in the advancement
3:41 AM Nilesh: ya hold on
Actually the earth itself undergoes transformation every like 10 million or some years.
to revive itself
3:42 AM and we also have outer space agents to destroy us.
me: have you seen the movie hera pheri?
Nilesh: which one first or second ?
me: first
Nilesh: i saw both actually
go on
3:43 AM me: in that movie, paresh rawal tells sunil shetty, "tu pehle nakki kar tera samasya kya hai"
3:44 AM Nilesh: meri samasya yeh hai
ki
3:47 AM me: i'm waiting
3:48 AM Nilesh: jab sab khatam hone waala hai to kyu kuch karneka ?
me: because we do not live in an anarchy
3:49 AM moreover how do you know that everything is going to finish in your lifetime
Nilesh: now tell me what is going to happen next.
American and other developed nations are already rich.
And nations and India and china are developing.
3:50 AM when India and China are developed then where will be America ?
me: survival of the fittest again
its all about domination my dear
3:51 AM Nilesh: Hmm.
me: now just apply the alpha male concept to nations
3:52 AM and everything falls into place
still confused?
3:54 AM Nilesh: India and America competing to survive
3:55 AM and China doing its best in every field.
3:56 AM me: aren't we all trying to do our best in whatever we do?
Nilesh: how long will it last.
3:57 AM me: have you seen matrix? the last one?
Nilesh: yes
me: do you remember the last dialogue of the movie... where the oracle and the architect are having a conversation
3:58 AM Nilesh: yes.
me: the architect asks ger a similar question
and the movie ends with the oracle's dialogue, "as long as it can"
3:59 AM Nilesh: Yes.
again the survival of the fittest.
4:00 AM me: now you're getting it :)
4:02 AM Nilesh: But we forget that african nations and other under-developed nations are getting compromised.
and that's done by our so so called "Developed Civilization"
4:03 AM me: do you really think we are personally responsible for their condition?
4:06 AM Nilesh: Yes.
like sanctions imposed
and all
4:08 AM me: sanctions are imposed by the imposing country because it feels threatened by the actions of another country. so it does the best it can to protect its own interests
4:09 AM Nilesh: Why India's PM Mr. Singh have to launch a vote of confidence to get the nuke deal with America ?
Is it not shameful.
me: let's not bring emotions here
4:10 AM shame, pride, ego are all very subjective terms
Nilesh: Ok.
me: and i have my own way of describing these
4:11 AM Nilesh: Ok and people at nasa are researching on
a new planet to live on because earth will not be live-able in next 50 years.
Now my question is
4:12 AM when we are not supposed to live on earth in the next 50 years or so
Then why only humans have the ability to question.
4:13 AM So why are we here ? has the implicit question
that if we only humans
have the ability to think
then what is that “thing” that we should be doing
why are we here ?
4:14 AM Survival of the fittest is for animals
who only want to pass on their genes.
Not for us.
4:15 AM me: do you really think that you are something more than a glorified version of a animal?
4:16 AM Nilesh: yes. do we have the capability to fly, breathe under water or run at 75 mph ?
No. But we can
think
and survive
by using our brains.
me: thats the whole point i'm trying to drive home
4:17 AM Nilesh: Then i am sure that only surviving should not be the only purpose.
me: there was a need to build the technology for survival
necessity is the mother of invention
4:18 AM Nilesh: Listen I know that humans have the ability to survive no matter what threat looms over us.
But is it the only thing.
Bible and other holy scripts tell us that we should live in harmony and all good stuff.
4:19 AM It also promises that someone will come back and salvate us.
4:20 AM So I dont know if aliens have bred us.
or we are the result of an experiment of someone.
me: i can also argue that geeta tells us to concentrate on our karma... do our best in whatever we do and not worry about the results
4:21 AM does it really matter where we came from or where are we headed?
Nilesh: Yes.
If i can reason.
I have to ask this question.
This is the universal question.
4:22 AM What is our purpose here.
Evolution is one.
but only evolution ?
and nothing else.
4:23 AM Ok. Tell me if you are in India then it must be 4:30 am.
what are you doing this late ?
me: may be there is... but i dont see the need for another reason as long as the evolution theory is able to explain my actions
its 4:25 am
4:24 AM Nilesh: Evolution : are you referring to the Darwins theory
because it has a severe flaw.
accoring to me
me: gon on please
4:25 AM Nilesh: Ok. If we have evolved from apes.
Then apes and humans should not be living in the same time frame.
apes should be extinct.
me: by evolution, i don't imply the nitti-gritties of darwin's theory. i just stick to the survival of the fittest
Nilesh: ok.
4:26 AM me: btw, i dont think darwin implies we descended from apes. apes and we have a common ancestor from where evolution branched out
Nilesh: Survival of the fittest .
me: something similar to dogs and wolves
4:27 AM Nilesh: hmm
dogs are a creation of man.
We have bred them.
from wolves and domesticated them.
me: whatever the tirggering factors, the fact remains that they are a seperate species than wolves
4:28 AM Nilesh: Ya. So lets look at this from another angle.
4:29 AM Now nature has purposefully created a lot of deers so that a leopard can survive.
And leopard has the capability to win over an deer.
me: not always
4:30 AM only 20% of the attacks are successful
Nilesh: Now nature has also created two of the most huge animals and most powerful animals.
Elephant and a hippo.
The catch here is that
both of them are vegeterians.
Now nature went on and created man.
4:31 AM With no significant phisical features.
But with a brain.
And with this brain
4:32 AM the human has the capability to disturb the existing ecological balance of the nature.
Nature would never let this happen.
So this leads us to a link
that we do not belong here.
me: are we considering nature as a third person here or the collective result of everyone's actions?
4:33 AM Nilesh: whatever you want.
You can think of it as a god, alien
me: no.. it depends on what you assume nature to be
Nilesh: or need to survive
me: because for this discussion, we cannot assume an external entity
4:34 AM Nilesh: We cannot conclude anything about nature.
All I can think is that nature has created this balance.
which is keeping everything in place.
4:35 AM But with the introduction of humans, it gets disturbed.
me: that again brings back the question... who or what is nature?
to me, it is not a seperate identity
Nilesh: It will start a whole new discussion.
4:36 AM as why only EARTH and no other planet.
and why only oxygen and all and all.
me: yes, let's just suffice to say that it is our tendency to externalise things which we cannot or do not want to explain
4:37 AM Nilesh: Yes, whenever we cannot answer something then we say it god’d wish.
God’s wish.
4:38 AM If there is no life on other planets then its awful waste of space.
This was said by some one i dont remember
Ya Carl Sagan.
4:39 AM me: that's again because of the way we define life
you'll also need to read something called the anthropic principle, if i got the name right
Nilesh: whats that ?
4:42 AM it says a lot of things
but what i understand is that had things been different
we would have come out with a similar argument
4:43 AM Nilesh: I’ll take a look at it later.
Its heavy.
4:44 AM me: i know :)
Nilesh: Also what I’ve observed is that
4:45 AM in every religion people expect the god to appear again and salvate us.
me: ah... religion...
Nilesh: and in a similar way there is a scientific group that expects advanced aliens to come and salvate us
4:46 AM and then I think yes
God exists
me: well... there are two categories of religion
Abrahamic ones and Vedic ones
Nilesh: scientists call it advanced alien civilization
me: the abrahamic religions (Islam, Christianity etc) believe in the saviour
4:47 AM Nilesh: Oh yes.
me: Vedic religions do not believe in a saviour
Nilesh: Ya because abrahmic religions have a starting point in history like the story of Moses and the book of exodus.
4:48 AM me: yes
Nilesh: Here we hindus do not know when it began
from where all this knowledge came into existence
Was Ramayana and Mahabharta the real stories.
4:49 AM West have their Atlantis city.
Von Daniken argues that the city of Ram and the Atlantis had fought a nuclear war that destroyed both.
4:50 AM what a heavy load on our brains !
and why ask questions.
they do not answer them.
4:51 AM By the way
I have to leave now,
to play cricket.
I’ll join you back sometime in future.
me: hopefully yes
Nilesh: and we’ll continue this discussion.
4:52 AM If you think we can come to some conclusion.
me: well, i guess i've cleared some of your doubts
it was nice talking to you after a long time
Nilesh: Those were not doubts.
me: its almost 5 here
so i should get some sleep
Nilesh: Those were universal questions
4:53 AM and i am expecting some saviour to come down on earth and answer my questions.
Get some sleep.
me: I'm not
Nilesh: Hopefully you will get some realisation in your dreams.
me: so we can have our own views
tata
bye
Nilesh: bye.------------------------------------------------
So as you see, after two hours of giving gyaan to each other, we still couldn't arrive at a conclusion. Yours views on the topic requested.
Aalok
- Fear knocked at the door. Faith answered and no one was there.